Of course Muslim cleric rule is a factor and it's part of the problem, I never said it wasn't. But it is certainly not the only factor.

Kim said to show him one ME country where women's rights have advanced and I showed him 18. Admittedly he did not specifically challenge me for facts on women's rights but that is a major component of the discussion. As far as movements in ME nations moving toward democracy (the other major part of the discussion) is a matter of current events which cannot be disputed. The people in many so called Arab nations are currently engaging in the overthrow of repressive regimes and demanding democratic processes in their governments. This is fact. Arab Spring isn't over people. It's just beginning.

Besides that, the facts I presented were not any Sunni based stats but actual historical facts that even you can't dispute, Fossil.

The people in ME nations need ongoing education and support to realize they do have power to choose and affect change in their governments and their lives. The people in the West need to realize that they sometimes are needing our help. Our ideals of democracy and liberty and justice are starting to catch on and I am hopeful that those people can catch up but it doesn't help for us to sit on our asses and say shit like fuck them, let them kill each other off. That is NOT what American values are about.